Friday, May 16, 2014

Bad things are afoot for Utah CCW holders visiting PA.

Many of my fellow Marylanders have permits to carry from states like Florida, Virginia, and Utah.  And those of us in that last category are now officially screwed if we want to visit Pennsylvania.  MikeW posted this info to his facespace wall, and I promptly forgot to share it, but the good folks at Mid-Atlantic Firearms Training shot an email out this morning.

With Bryan's permission, I'm posting his email in its entirety:

May 16, 2014 


There have been some recent developments with the Utah Concealed Firearms Permit and the reciprocity/recognition with the state of Pennsylvania.  As of 5/6/14, the state of Pennsylvania no longer recognizes the Utah CFP.  The following is a link to the Attorney General's office in PA which clearly states this:

Normally when a state comes on or drops off, I don't send out these notices as I clearly state in all classes that it is the permit holder's responsibility to check laws before traveling.  However, given the proximity of PA to MD, I felt an obligation to send out this notice as soon as I received knowledge of it.  Please do NOT travel into PA under the provisions of the Utah permit.  You are NO longer covered.

Basically, the AG in Pennsylvania, Kathleen Kane, was a Michael Bloomberg backed candidate and unfortunately got elected.  She is doing everything she can to make it more difficult for gun owners and this is just the latest incarnation of that.

There is not much more I can add to this email.  If anything changes I will send out another notice.  At this point, according to my research and talking with many other instructors, etc., your only choice to be able to carry in Pennsylvania is openly.  As you may remember from class, I do not particularly endorse that idea.  However, options have been severely limited at this point.  If you are a MD resident with a Maryland Wear and Carry Permit, you can get a PA permit from a local county sheriff. 

I am sending this email out to about 5000 people in my email list.  The above information is clearly stated an stands on it's own.  I am as upset as I am sure most of you will be as I am sure many of you took this class with the sole intentions of being able to carry in PA.  I can NOT field questions or comments from that many people.  Please do not contact me with "that sucks" comments, I already know that!!  Again, I sent out this info as soon as I received it.  As of the last Utah class we conducted, PA
was still on board.
Mid-Atlantic Firearms Training | 410-796-7715 | |

This is bad stuff, folks.


AndyN said...

I can think of at least two other things you should be aware of if you plan to bring a gun to PA.

Carrying a gun in a car isn't considered open carry. If you don't have a license to carry and you have a gun in your car, the gun must be unloaded and the ammunition stored in a separate container. There's apparently some disagreement, depending on whose jurisdiction you're in, as to whether a different pocket in your range bag qualifies as a separate container, or whether it can't even be in the same bag. Regardless, if you don't have a carry permit recognized by PA, you can't travel with a loaded gun in your car.

Open carry isn't allowed in Philadelphia without a license to carry. Which makes perfect sense - the one place in the state where you'd be most likely to need to be armed is the one place where it's most difficult to do so legally.

Old NFO said...

Not good, and one wonders what is going on up there...

Laura said...

Andy - good info, all. Thanks for sharing. I wasn't clear on some of it though the car carry is the same in Maryland, so we're used to that.

NFO - liberal tendencies in enough of the state, from what i can tell. Bad things are afoot.

Bubblehead Les. said...

Yeah, Utah isn't the only state that Penn. doesn't Honor. The Ohio CHP, which is one of the most convoluted to get for a "Shall Issue" state, is No Good in Penn. either. Yet they honor other "RESIDENT-ONLY" CHPs that are nowhere as hard to get as Ohios. I'm just going to assume that Penn. is about to become a VolksRepublik like NY and NJ, and plan accordingly. Thank God West-by-God Virginia hasn't drunk the Kool-Aid.

Do look into the AZ CHP. Won't help in Maryland, but it is good in 30+ states. Mine's in the Mail.

Laura said...

i'll look into it, Les. do they have any restrictions to people who live in states that issue permits? some states require you to have a permit in your home state before they'll issue one.

Mike W. said...

I have family that lives in Philly, and PA is the one state I usually travel to most often (other than MD) so all of Kathleen Kane's shenanigans are seriously pissing me off.

I got a VA and a FL permit so I could carry in PA, since UT started requiring a permit from your home state about the time my UT expired in 2013. PA nixed reciprocity with both states after Kane got elected. I have a AZ non-resident too, but that's no good either. I'm down to ONE permit that's good in PA right now, and who knows when they'll change that agreement.

Open carry - Like others said, no OC in Philly (or Pittsburgh) without a reciprocal permit.

Here's the statutes for vehicle carry. Note this as one of the exceptions.

"Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state."

So, while you MUST have a reciprocal permit to carry in PA, all you need for legal vehicle carry is a valid permit from any other state. It need not be a permit from a state that PA has reciprocity with.

Also, according to the UFA, section 6106 lists an an exemption to the vehicle carry prohibition

"Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season."

Just found that bit interesting.